"A Reset, Not an Evolution": A Coffee With Toby Hack, Kepler

by Dana Lee on 10th Jun 2026 in Video Interviews

In this episode of A Coffee With... Toby Hack, CEO, EMEA & APAC at Kepler Group, joins ExchangeWire COO Lindsay Rowntree over a skinny latte to chat AI and generative engine optimisation (GEO).

Toby's career has spanned media agencies, sales, and tech across Australia, the US, EMEA, and APAC. He recently joined Kepler, drawn by the company's specific, transparent approach to media and its future-proofing focus, as well as the chance to build something new.

Rather than an evolution, AI and GEO represent a fundamental reset for advertising. Businesses must rapidly adapt to engage both humans and AI agents in the new search paradigm. Proactive testing and iteration are essential for survival and competitive advantage. While technology can provide data and direction, human curiosity and ambition will be the main drivers of progress and differentiation.

The Impact of GEO

The emergence of GEO and AI in search has brought the industry to an inflection point, shifting strategy from human-centric messaging to machine-mediated discovery. What was once multi-step search is now compressed into single conversational interactions, demanding new operational responses and client education.

GEO sits between SEO’s engine focus and paid search’s consumer-focused messaging, creating a hybrid optimisation target. Brands must still appeal to humans with traditional brand-building and emotional storytelling while also targeting AI agents. That means ensuring digital content is consistent, accurate, and easily discoverable by LLMs.

Toby emphasises traditional media planning principles (message, audience, timing, place) while adding optimisation for agentic systems. The complexity increases, but so does the opportunity; operating in this dual mode will soon be table stakes.

Client Attitudes and First-Mover Advantage

While clients are noticing search behaviour shifts, many choose to “fail second” or "wait and see". Toby argues for first-mover advantage – in this reset, inaction risks being left behind. Speed matters, but pragmatic, intentional follow-through is crucial. Bold statements must be matched by execution and measurable impact.

"I think it's really important for clients to test and to iterate and to try. I think you learn a lot very quickly. I definitely have worked with clients in the past who said, "I want to fail second. And so what I want is people to invest in that space – I'll wait and see." Which, obviously, is a way of doing it. We definitely are trying to navigate our clients towards learning. We think there's an awful lot to get right." —Toby Hack

LLMs prioritise web-available facts, such as product pages, social posts, and third-party reviews. Kepler's proprietary product, Kip AIR™, is a recommendation index that assesses how brands surface across different GEO contexts, scoring parameters such as recognisability and relevance to establish a baseline for iteration.

Outcomes and the Role of People

Toby highlights an empiricism gap: a lack of clarity as to the data, KPIs, and measures in GEO. With funnels collapsing, the world is moving more towards outcomes- and financial-based measurements. Retailers like Walmart are leading AI conversations, with native advertising on US platforms. A key challenge for clients is keeping up with the rapid pace of change.

Despite AI’s rise, human creativity and innovation remain the key determinants of success, with recent statements suggesting that AI’s mechanical costs may not be cheaper than human labor. New ideas and strategic choices still require human judgment. As tech stacks become more homogenous, people will be the true differentiator in an agentic-led future.